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Poster: AltheaRose Date: May 23, 2012 8:25pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: 5/8/77

So when DID it start circulating? Anyone know?

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Poster: turnphilup Date: May 24, 2012 6:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 5/8/77

My two cents for what it is worth. The betty boards of this show in '87 when I got a copy of it is what made me a dead head to this day. It was not "Touch of Grey", the album and or the video, and all the hoopla that came with it that got through to me, it was this frickin bootleg (as well as 3-1-69) that sold me on the boys. It was just a coincidence that Touch was also big that year. I just wanted to hear those songs live, as they sounded on these tapes that I had come across. I wanted to hear that band live, and started chasing them around until I found that sound. It took 8 years of touring to figure out that it only would happen for a few songs a show. I was chasing the sound of those first tapes. That is why I think Cornell resonates a lot with most of folks who got on the bus then. Of course now, with access to all the shows we do have, we realize it is not by any means, one of the best shows out there. I will say though that the Dancin,SF, and Dew, still to this day, always put a smile on my face and get me out of my chair and shaking these ole bones. My two cent. Peace.

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: May 24, 2012 8:33am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 5/8/77

That's an interesting point. So some Touchheads were really Betty Heads ...

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Poster: fenario80 Date: May 23, 2012 8:35pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 5/8/77

It was already legendary in 1980, but I don't believe I ever actually heard it until several years after that

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Poster: light into ashes Date: May 23, 2012 10:34pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 5/8/77

The audience tapes started circulating immediately in May '77. The Betty Boards surfaced in 1987.

Apparently it was only after '87 when it started shooting to the top of people's favorites.
For instance, in Blair Jackson's 1983 book The Music Never Stopped, this show is not listed among the top 45 "best of GD taper's choice" shows. (Then again, only two '77 shows are listed.)

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Poster: reviewr Date: May 24, 2012 7:52pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 5/8/77

Jackson's book Goin' Down The Road from '92 does list it as one of the best from '77 (he gives his opinion of the top 10 of each year). He calls it a "monster show", calls Scarlet> Fire "spectacular", and says Morning Dew is of the best ever.

This doesn't answer the question of when it started to circulate, but gives some insight to when it gained acclaim.

BTW. I've been giving '77 a lot of critical listening lately. I'm undecided, but think this may be the best from the '77-'78 era.

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: May 23, 2012 11:10pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 5/8/77

Really? What were the top shows considered to be at that point?

Fenario remembers 5/8/77 being legendary by '80. Anyone else remember hearing about it that early?

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Poster: light into ashes Date: May 23, 2012 11:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 5/8/77

The '83 list doesn't mean too much in today's terms because so many shows were not circulating yet, especially from the early years. There was hardly anything from '68-69 available.

The list was compiled by several "leading tape collectors," including Bob Menke, Barry Glassberg, and David Gans.

Jackson expanded the list considerably for his '92 book Goin' Down the Road, which better resembles what's available today.
Golden Road and Deadbase had their first top-ten-show polls around '87 or so, which I don't have, but would provide another glimpse at what was available & most popular back then.

Top Shows
2-14-68
12-28-69
2-11-70
2-13-70
2-14-70
5-2-70
11-8-70
11-20-70
4-28-71
4-29-71
8-27-72
9-26-72
9-28-72
2-17-73
6-10-73
8-6-74
10-19-74
12-31-76
3-18-77
5-19-77
12-31-78
12-1-79
3-7-81
5-6-81
9-12-81
7-18-82
10-10-82

Runners-Up
6-7-69
7-12-69
6-24-70
12-31-71
2-9-73
2-22-73
8-1-73
12-18-73
6-9-76
10-10-76
10-21-78
8-5-79
8-13-79
12-28-79
5-10-80
8-28-81
7-28-82
7-31-82

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: May 24, 2012 3:29am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 5/8/77

nothing from Europe '72 on that list. Was nothing available other than the album?

Is interesting to see how many of the shows (or at least parts of them) on this list have been released by the band.

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Poster: pinyonjay Date: May 25, 2012 4:52pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 5/8/77

As thanks for picking up a couple of guys hitching to the Alpine '82 shows I received a series of tapes. They included:

1) 5/8/77 Barton Hall - High generation Jerry Moore audience: http://archive.org/details/gd1977-05-08.ecm33p.moore.berger.miller.117026.flac16. Scarlet through Dew, Lazy Lightning filler. I considered this show absolutely magic from the first listen. Scarlet-Fire transition is unequaled. Morning Dew mind blowing. Everything, all at once, perfect. The Betty Board of this show appeared in my circle in '88 or '89. Both the Moore audience and the board are gorgeous.

2) 5/11/72 - Rotterdam. Very high generation soundboard from Dark Star through end of second set (encore missing). This tape had the weirdest levels I have ever seen. One channel was maxed out, the other was barely there, yet, through a mountain of hiss, the music was balanced. It was several years before I fully appreciated what I had here. Headphones in the summer at 2 AM - emerged from the other side thinking OMFG. Still my personal favorite/heaviest show from E72. The only other tape I remember having from E72 in the early/pre-Archive days was the Luxemberg FM broadcast through the first set. The Archive, and then the Box Set, were, of course, a revelation as to E72.

3) 5/15/77 St. Louis. Steve Maizner audience, St. Stephen through Sugar Magnolia. To my ear, one of the most underrated shows from the '77 Spring Tour, along with St. Paul on 5/11. The Maizner audience is a sweet, high energy source, (taped from the balcony of the Fox Theatre from what I can tell): http://archive.org/details/gd1977-05-15.aud.maizner.berger.99099.flac16. Also recommend the Sir Mick Matrix, which uses the Maizner source and definitely improves on the Board (which has a flat sound to it): http://archive.org/search.php?query=1977-05-15%20matrix%20AND%20collection%3AGratefulDead

For the record, I was always on the fringes of any tape trading. Yet like magic, and right on some possible karmic cue, astonishing shows appeared on tape over the years. Always felt lucky in that regard.

First tape was the FOB Wagner audience of 7/7/78 - seminal, definitive, favorite versions of virtually all songs through Scarlet. To my ear, this audience tape perfectly captured the magic that is Red Rocks: http://archive.org/details/gd1978-07-07.aud.wagner.moore.berger.82931.sbeok.flac16. As Blair Jackson titled a recent blog entry, "All Hail the Tapers!" because the circulating board of this show has a problem as it represents only a single recorded channel split over two. The OctopusRider matrix, which uses the Wagner audience, nicely compensates for this problem and is highly recommended: http://archive.org/details/gd1978-07-07.mtx.octopusrider.98917.flac16.

Of course, I only figured out the sources for these audience tapes because of the Archive. Never would've thunk it possible years ago.

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Poster: light into ashes Date: May 24, 2012 5:16am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 5/8/77

I don't know how many E72 shows were available in '83, but it was nowhere near what we had even 15 years ago.

Reading the Taping Compendium reviews from 1998, it's noticeable how many of the E72 show reviews note that a show had only recently surfaced or was hard to find, or was only available in severely edited versions (if at all), or most commonly, circulated only in very bad, muddy sound.

Many of the shows now considered classics were then unknown. Heck, I don't think there was even any setlist database then. And even with the 'available' shows, collecting them was a laborious process in the tape-trading days, depending who you could contact.
That said, I still think it's a strange list, with perhaps too much weight on "recent" Dead, though I guess that's understandable.

This post was modified by light into ashes on 2012-05-24 12:16:44

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Poster: wisconsindead Date: May 24, 2012 12:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 5/8/77

well put on 5877. Its actually not that amazing of a show, though the dew is maybe thee best version of all time.

EDIT: this post was meant for turn up phil....

This post was modified by wisconsindead on 2012-05-24 19:42:53

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: May 24, 2012 4:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 5/8/77

Yeah, I was thinking that too.

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Poster: august_wst Date: May 24, 2012 7:19am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 5/8/77

I was trading during the mid to late 80's and I don't think this show came my attention until the late 80's as the latest "must have" tape. I have no memory of anyone thinking it was some astounding show (for that matter, I still don't). The real hoopla around these tape was the (all important) "low generation" of them, the clarity of them and just the sound of Phil on a fretless bass. Other than that the playing on it was good, a little above average to most but that's all.

For that matter at the time, the suddenly released Betty Boards were the big attraction to everyone. To suddenly have this huge release of low generation, high quality recordings into a environment of crappy stealth audience recordings was really the big deal for at the time (the taper's section was still new and the venues controlled taping). The term "Betty Board" was a mark of quality that actually got applied to some recordings on people's "tape lists" (remember those things) in order to misrepresent themselves and the quality of their tapes just so they had something to offer the "big fish" in order to lure them in and rip them off in a trade in the honor systems we used at the time (happened to me a few times).

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Poster: N Hoey Date: May 24, 2012 11:03am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 5/8/77

"and just the sound of Phil on a fretless bass."

To the best of my knowledge Phil didn't ever play a fretless with the GD. I never saw him use one at any show I saw (starting in '76). He certainly didn't use one in '77.

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Poster: august_wst Date: May 24, 2012 11:29am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 5/8/77

Don't know what to say, there are points in that recording that the slides he does sound flawlessly fretless. That was the word at the time too.

Having not been there myself I can't say for sure. Just reporting my historical perspective

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Poster: N Hoey Date: May 24, 2012 11:38am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 5/8/77

No big deal, but in the late 70's Phil performed switching between his Rick Turner/Alembic Osage-Orange bass (a la The GD Movie) and Big Brown (sometimes known as The Godfather), the "alembicized" Guild Starfire bass. Both 4 string, both fretted.

I saw him do the finger slides on songs like "Fire on the Mountain" and "Lazy Lightning" on those fretted basses all the time. Anyone reporting that they saw a fretless were um, not seeing clearly for whatever reason.

Attachment: 11094083_ori.jpg
Attachment: imagAux1_phil-alembic.jpg

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Poster: Headphone Date: May 25, 2012 10:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 5/8/77

Delighted to see the term "alembicized" mentioned here! Every day in the 70s we would use that word to describe modifications to all manner of musical instruments, household objects, even bicycles!

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Poster: Headstrung Date: May 24, 2012 7:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: 5/8/77

I first heard the Betty Board at a keg party in my friends basement Summer of 1987 in Mamaroneck, New York. Some of us had audiences of this show but as twenty somethings who were to young to be in attendance the copies were not fresh and of multiple generations.